Buying carbon offsets for a tank water heater?  Apparently your information is dated and biased.  Carbon offsets are the equivalent of Catholic indulgences.  Moreover, increases in carbon do not effect the so called "man made" global warming. 

I just got back from Alaska where scientists have determined and it understood for many years that the northern hemisphere was covered by ice up to 200 ft. thick over 150 million years ago.  A melting occurred just over 50 million years ago that gives us the mountain ranges we enjoy today.  More recently, ice began to come back and is not receding again.  All this without the help of man.

In short, keep your carbon offsets and global warming ideas out of the reviews.  We can debate global warming and its affects for all time.  However, I'm looking for solid, factual reviews.  When you incorporate unfounded political views in your reporting you do CR a disservice to its subscribers. 

Tank less water heaters do save money on use, but just like hybrids, cost too much initially to make them worthwhile.  Carbon offsets are a joke.  Don't fall for it.

Question,

i have a Remote cabin, the water supply (a 500 Gal.) tank is 2 feet from sink just on the other side of the wall out side,  i want to put a tankless heater to my faucet, i'm going with a single hole single lever faucet,  i dont have elec.  propane runs the stove and cabin heater so the P.O.U (Point Of Use) water heater has to be propane.

the Only thing that the P.O.U will provide Hot H2o for is the kitchen sink.

Looking for Advice from Experanced people that have used or installed  P.O.U for use in this or simular situation.

Thanks.

Dave. snowmobiledave@hotmail.com

All these heaters need an electric supply to start them.

Dave,

Check out Bosch AquaStar 1600H.

It has a hydro powered ignition - no electricity needed. Before you buy it, make sure you have enough water pressure to get it going.

Source: Bosch AquaStar

I also have a Takagi heater in my home for 5yrs and it has well-exceeded our expectations. Not only that, the values of replacing a huge hot water tank with the Takagi have far outweighed the very narrow-sighted CR ROI calculation;

*   Removed water damage risk to having upstairs water tank fail. Our Insurance company reduces premiums for avoiding this common catastrophe. (And I sleep better at night.)

*    Created space for new kids bathrm  (Priceless!) Adding Bathrm, Closet, Cptr Nook spaces add appreciable value to homeowner and resale value of your home.

*     For us and animal habitat, we reduced carbon footprint just through box pkg alone. Additionally, you can ship far more tank-less htrs per sq.ft. of truck than tanks. (A small cereal mfgr (www.Nature'sPath.com) reduced their cereal box size by 10% and it's thickness to save us all 330 tons of paperboard, nearly 3M gal of water and 2,000,000 KWh of energy. That's just a cereal box!  Imagine the savings of a tank-less box!)

I could go on, but the fact is, these tank-less htrs DO work, and work well (my Takagi does). The return on investment extends to the real cares, values and responsibilities of today"s consumer- we're smarter than we were 5yrs ago. CR needs to recognize this to stay relevant.

I lived in Italy and Spain for 6 years in the early eighties and early nineties. All we had were tankless heaters, little ones in the bath and in the kitchen. They were great! Always wondered why we didn't have them here. I wonder whereis the dicussion of their practical use in colder climates. In Mediteranean climate they were often installed outside, but I also remember them inside. I agree, forget about global warming, think about air pollution, cancer, water, and our children. We must act smartly. I'm getting a tankless.

In 2009, as I understand, you can get a sizable tax cut for the tankless.  I got quotes in Baton Rouge for water heater tank installed for $1379 versus tankless for $3019 plus $300 for the roofer for the bigger hole for the vent.  Its been a while since I did the calculations but I figured the tax savings at 30% or $996 for the tankless.  The end cost would be $1448 tank versus $2474 for tankless.  Still a big difference between them.

But in the quotes above on this website, there are more competitive vendors than my Baton Rouge business and they should cost much, much less.  A posting above quoted tanks costing uninstalled about $400 to $600 and tankless at $1200.  The installation costs would be higher for tankless but, I believe, the tax break is figured on the total installed cost.  Therefore, the economics would be much different than what I found.  Under these new conditions with a competitive vendor, it appears the tankless may be economical to the tank.  The issue would become whether the tankless drawbacks described here can be avoided.  Another issue would be if you really need yearly technician checks of the tankless---that would be a killer.

"Our estimate is based on the fact that a tankless model requires the installation of its own dedicated air intake/exhaust vent system - a step not needed if replacing a tank type heater with another. Since a gas fired tank type water heater was likely "common vented" in a chimney with a gas furnace or boiler, modifications may also be needed to the chimney because of the potential for it to have too much capacity once the water heater is no longer vented into it. In some situations, our installation cost underestimates upgrades to undersized gas piping which would need to be replaced often at significant cost."

It is not a fact that a tankless model requires the installation of a dedicated air intake/exhaust system. Although some high (85%+) efficient tankless models require this many (80%+) efficient tankless models do not. Those that do not require intake/exhaust can typically continue to be "common vented" without modifications to the chimney or flue lining. Existing gas piping may need to be upgraded, this is true, but oftentimes the gas supply is not located so far away as to make this an expensive requirement. Also, many units do not require an electrical connection for the unit and operate off a standing pilot or hydro-generated ignition. Obviously those units that require PVC venting will also require an electrical connection for the draft inducer (fan) but certainly not all units.

As an aside, since you have brought up the complications resulting from "common venting" do you discourage 90%+ efficient gas furnaces to replace older furnaces? After all, since they use PVC to vent and will no longer be vented in the chimney with the water heater this is now a very real and likely issue for the water heater.

I'm not taking issue with your claims as a whole. I do not have means to test the gas usage, thermal loss through a water tank, etc in order to make a fair comparison. However, when you state something is a fact you should perhaps make sure it is a fact before posting it as such.

Not all tankles water heaters require electricity.  I have a bosch unit that vents directly out the wall and it includes a TINY water powered generator to create a spark for the pilot light.  When the unit is not being used, there is NO PILOT light.  When a hot water faucet is opened and and there is flow through the unit, the tiny generator creates enough electricity to spark the pilot and start the flame.

Very economical and we couldn't be more pleased.  We've had the unit for 8 years with no issues.

I strongly recommend them.

Hey Steve thanx for your input, I'm new to this scene and have to make a decision LIKE REELY FAST!!! my oil burning water heater is leaking and my furnace for the house is hanging by the string. Is your Bosch unit heating your entire house (how big is it if I may ask) and are you in warm or cold climate